Coffee Conversations | Egyptians Smuggling Palestinians for Money💲

Yeah. I don't know if you heard about this instance where I showed covered. There were Egyptian he were charging money for Gaza to leave Gaza. And I saw some criticism about about it, you know, by some of the members in the special groups.

Taking

a rather black and white moral studies about it, you know, just being disgusted by the fact that they are being charged money to be taken over. Like, how can you take money from your brothers and sisters who are suffering? You know? And I thought that it was a very, very simplistic it's not even simplistic. It also reveals to me that you're next to nothing in real life experience, particularly particularly with the poor.

With the actual poor. You have no experience

with them.

You know? And I don't mean it in a scathing manner. I don't mean I am not I'm not saying it in a very scathing way. I'm just trying to put this forward to business that this is something you need to factor in when you make an opinion of, you know, when you have feelings about certain things that are taking place, you know. You if you have no direct experience with the poor and being poor, you really don't know what how life goes on for them.

You know, how life happens for them.

I would look at it more from just a again a very practical point of view. Like if you if you've ever been to Egypt, for example, someone won't even give you street directions without charging you for that. If they can, they won't, you know, the the the there are people who who stand on the corner, like, for when a taxi drops you off. They don't work for anybody, they just work for themselves to take your bags to the hotel or take your bags down the block or whatever the case may be. And they want you to pay them for that.

It's like it's like the people in the in The States who stand on the street corners at intersections to wash your windows, which you didn't ask them to do, but they'll do it and then they want you to pay them. So there's people like like very simple mundane normal tasks that people will charge you for in Egypt. And Egypt isn't unique in that, that's as I said, even in The States you have that kind of thing. Anywhere where people are struggling to survive and the economic situation in Egypt is bad. People are struggling to survive.

So they find ways to make money, that's people now who aren't breaking the law. When you're talking about moving people from Gaza into Egypt, first of all, that that involves several people. That's not one guy who's taking you over in his car. That's not how it works. This is going to involve multiple people signing off on moving you into Egypt from Gaza.

Multiple people, which will include police, it will include security people, it will include officials and so on, all of whom are breaking the law. They're all colluding together to break the law for humanitarian purposes, out of out of their, know, conscience and their recognition that the situation for Gazans is as dire as it is, and they want to help. But they are also realistically putting themselves at risk of jail, putting themselves at risk of prosecution, and at the minimum at risk of losing their jobs. This is just a fact, this is you can like it or not like it, you can have whatever moral stance you want have about it, but this is the practical reality. When you're talking about moving people across borders, several people are involved in that, all of whom are taking a risk, all of whom are breaking the law.

And there's expenses involved in that including bribery, paying off officials and so on, and making it worth their while to look the other way. This is this is just a reality. Again, you can you can you can you can apply whatever moral position you want to it, that they're, you know, price gouging, but I don't know how you can set the price. I don't know what I don't know what the market price is for moving people, because there's also the the added factor of there are, there is a criteria for Gazans to be allowed to enter Egypt according to the Egyptian government, according to the official position of the Egyptian government. There's probably about a 100,000 Gazans who have entered Egypt since October 7 to receive medical treatment and so on.

There's there's, you know, thousands of Palestinians who are in, who are receiving medical treatment in Egypt right now. They were allowed in, they didn't have to be smuggled in. But people who have to be smuggled in, you're someone who facilitates people who don't meet the criteria, the very strict criteria of Egypt, Palestinians who don't meet the strict criteria of Egypt that will allow them to enter for medical treatment or what have you, humanitarian reasons, those if you are facilitating those people leaving Gaza, then you can be accused of facilitating the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, Because the official position of Hamas, the official position of the Palestinian authority, the official position of the Arab League, the official position of the government of Egypt, is that Palestinians should remain where they are. Because if they leave they'll never be able to go back. So if you this is the whole reason why Egypt has taken the position they've taken.

They were they were asked, they were not more than asked, they were pressured to open Rafah and accept all of the Palestinians in Gaza into Sinai because that's where Israel wants them to be. They wanna move them out of Gaza and put them in Sinai and then take over Gaza. So that this is the whole reason why it's difficult for Palestinians to go into Egypt. This is the whole reason why it's difficult from the Egyptian side to let them in, because you're facilitating the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. So if someone doesn't meet the criteria, because for humanitarian reasons like I say, Egypt does allow Palestinians, Gaza to enter Egypt according to criteria.

If you don't meet that criteria, then you have to be smuggled in illegally and like I said that that requires several people all of whom are breaking the law, all of whom are taking risks. Risks of prosecution, and like I said, at least at the minimum risk of losing their job, and being fined or what have you. So just realistically, this is how this is how it works. You can you can imagine that because the situation in Gaza is so dire, because the people are trying to escape for their life, that everybody should be just doing it for free. But if that's your position, then your position should be that the Palestinians should just be expelled into Sinai.

If that's your position, then everyone should just flee and let the Israelis take Gaza. That that that's basically actually what you're saying. If if you think that the correct position is for Egyptian human smugglers to to to make it easy by making it free to let Gazans enter Egypt, then just go a step further and say it should be the official position of the Egyptian government that everybody should be able to flee into Sinai. Which is the same thing as saying that Israel should be able to expel them into Sinai.

And that was the initial castigation of the Muslim rulers and Egyptian rulers, because why don't you just open and let them in? That was one of the, you know Yeah. Official outcries by some

And that and that and that only resonates with people in the West Yeah. Who don't who don't understand the dynamics Exactly. Who don't understand what that really means. Yeah. It just means the expulsion of the Palestinians.

Yeah. That's all it means. To never return again.

Yeah. I I was just struck by the simplicity of the the reading of what state of place.

I mean, this is this is a little bit like like what I was talking about I think in the in the Quranic decolonization video, the most recent one. About how choosing the moral course of action for for Muslims is an intellectual undertaking, not not an emotional one. Okay. Our emotions tell us, yeah, Haram, how can you take money from these poor people who are who are, you know Okay, but but then there's the real world. It's not abstract.

If you if you get down on the ground and see what is involved in this whole scenario, in this whole dynamic, like I said, there's the political dynamic of of the ongoing genocide ethnic cleansing in Gaza, and the desire of the Israelis, of the Zionists, of the Americans to expel the Palestinians from Gaza. That there's that dynamic that you have to consider. And then what what what are the what are the ramifications of you then facilitating the free flight of Palestinians from Gaza? What's the ramifications of that in terms of capitulation with genocide? But then, like I said, there's there's there's just the the reality of what it takes.

Because if if you accept that they shouldn't, that the Egyptian government's position is correct, that they shouldn't let Palestinians enter Gaza, or enter Sinai. If you agree that that's the correct position, then you acknowledge that the only way around that is illegally, because of your compassion for individuals and families who want to escape. Then you know that this has to be done illegally. This has to be done by smuggling, it has to be done clandestinely, and you should understand as an adult person what that involves. You really should understand that.

Cross border human trafficking requires a whole network of people, a whole a whole system. Yeah. A whole system of movement that requires everyone to be compensated for the risks that they're taking. That's just how it works. Just think it through.

Let's say that it's all happening for free. Well, then de facto, there is no restriction on Palestinians leaving and being expelled from Gaza. De facto. I mean, I saw I saw I saw that that that Biden is is supposedly considering welcoming Palestinian refugees into America. How do you feel about that?

How do you feel about that? Don't you see that that's the same thing? You you can see transparently, hopefully, that that's America facilitating the the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Yeah. Hopefully you can understand that.

That there you all you're trying to all America is trying to do is get the Palestinians to get the Gazans out of Gaza and pretending that it's humanitarian. So how is that different than than you wanting Egyptians to facilitate the free movement of of Gazans out of Gaza? How is it different? And and why why the moral condemnation for someone who is upholding, basically what they're doing is upholding the prohibition, they're upholding the prohibition, the legal prohibition of Egypt to to facilitate the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. And they're they're making an illegal exception and getting paid for it.

Why wouldn't they? Why do you imagine that they wouldn't get paid for that? Believe me, you can think it from wherever you're sitting, you know, in Europe, in The UK, in America, California, wherever, you can think it that if it was you, you'd do it for free. No, you wouldn't. It would it doesn't it doesn't work like that in the real world.

This is why I'm this is why I'm saying that your your your moral judgment has to be tempered by reality.