Middle Nation Content Talks | Colonization in the Sahel; Pagan History of Europe

Assalamu alaikum. Warahmatullahi wa barakat to everyone and welcome to this week's Mural Nation Content Talks. This is our fifth episode. So today's speakers are sister Valkyrie and brother Nile and their topics derive from various content on the Mural Nation YouTube channel. And our hopes for today's presentations are to provide more insights, context, and even expand on what Rolisher has so generously made available to us on the channel.

And, I find it particularly interesting that both topics take the approach from a historical and a theological context. So I'm excited to hear what is in store for us today. So first up is sister Val. She's from Tanzania, East Africa, and her topic is the Sahel, going back in history. Sister Val, welcome.

The mic is yours.

Thank you. Once again. I would say, yeah, I'm coming from Africa and then in Tanzania. Not from the Sahel, definitely. But I am trying to just read the history, not necessarily in detail, but just to highlight perhaps what I can say.

Major event in the region and how it came to be the Sahel and what does that mean to the people in the Sahel and and, their contribution in terms of, geopolitical, landscape in in Africa and to the globe at large. So I would I would just say, like, recently, we have seen countries like Najeb and Burkina Faso and Mali trying to defy the western colonialism and exploitation, which actually a sense of claiming economic independence from the western nations. And that actually has something to do with the origin of the region itself. That's what that's what what I think is important that I I thought we can have a look at. And to be specific, the the the the Sahel region actually is composed of what we can say six countries which expand from Chad from the Eastern, from Chad to Nigeria to Burkina Faso, Mali, Mauritania, and Senegal, which was then composed by African what what do we what is called like west west Sudanic empires.

And, actually, we can we can recall the major empires which actually existed in mix of some Arab barbers and black African as I the Ghana Empire, which existed from seventh eighth eighth century to eleventh. And it had its capital at Kumbisale, and it was doing business with the North, which is Morocco, which was then already Islam I mean, Islamic region. And then it was overtaken by Mali dynasty, the k kita dynasty, the Mali empire from third century to sixteenth century. And this particular empire now, it was really having Islamic, I should say, heritage because the rulers actually converted to Islam. And it expanded from Niger River, Brazil to Senegal in the Far West.

So from basically very interior area of West Africa to to to the coast of Atlantic. And it was centered at Timbuktu, which actually was a seat which flourished with a lot of scholars from Islamic universities from Egypt then and from Arabia when they were going to do Hajj. For example, they are as we are referred to as Mansa. So you had like Mansa Musa and other people were very, very famous. And they they grow very strong.

And as we will see, like as I will say shortly, this actually empire were actually grounded on what is referred to as trans Saharan bread. But then I would say before going to what kind of business they were doing, we see after Mali, then the Sombrai empire merged. Somehow, these empires were, like, overshadowing one another. The other one phase out after years, and then the the new empire stays. And during Songai empire, the rulers were actually referred to as where we had like, a Mohammed and a lot of them.

And these all of them were Muslim, actually. And their capital was in Gao, which we and actually, it was somehow in the border of Mali in Burkina Faso somewhere. And they they were very how how should I say? They were very powerful in terms of military, and they were economically strong compared to the previous empire. But then to the Far Eastern, there was a very huge empire which was referred to as Kalimbon.

But this particular empire was was exceptional. It was not overtaken by any empire. It started from ninth century to nineteenth century. It was actually based on Chad, and it extended from south from Northern Cameroon today, we can say, to very far North North North and close to Libya. And the rulers were called as Saifs.

And one of the great examples, like, this particular empire was Islamic from as eleventh century to nineteenth century when it was taken by by French colonize colonizers. And we see that having that long standing Islamic heritage from the seventh or almost eleventh century to nineteenth century, that was not something that could be easily raised by the colonialism. Like, what we can see in other African countries and other countries which were colonized by perhaps Europeans like British, we see in Belgians, we see that most of the people were changed perhaps from Chris from their traditional religion to to Christianity, and then they were be they become very soft. But this particular region, Islam was a religion. So it was not it was not something you can actually get rid of as we can see and as we will see in in some videos from the the Shahid, this content, we see that Islam actually is the only proven, I should say, mechanism or a way that has successfully changed the people.

And when they change for that, then we can see from the Sahel region is an example. They never go back to whatever, what what we can say. But this does not mean they were purely Islam, that they didn't have, like they don't they didn't practice their traditional stuffs. They were, like, mixed as we know in most Islamic countries and from Bangladesh and where I'm coming from. You will have Islam as perhaps a major religion, but then you have this minor face and and stuffs.

But one thing which is important to what I can say geopolitics and the history of this region is that, as I said, these empires actually flourished under the Trans Saharan trade And the major seat where where where where involved and the trade routes and the and the universities flourished and so many things. But importantly, what was the the resources or the goods that were were were actually in exchange? What were they selling? They they used to be selling gold and, salt and, colonnades from south, from the house actually, and and the other other products, which were actually, easy to be found in the in in that region. But as we see, after '90 after the scramble foreign partition of Africa, 1895, French took over, and, they established the the exploitative project.

And in the process, actually, yes, as we can see, they discovered a lot of minerals like uranium, which is very, very potential crucial. Through their assimilation because they tried to do the assimilation policy as and I'm not going to go to detail on how it works, but actually, like, changing the the people to I mean, to accept, French citizenship and then you are entitled with these particular privileges less than other peoples. Some some some did assimilate, but most of Islam Islamic people who are there, they didn't actually actually assimilate, I would say. Otherwise, their naming were changing, and the the the the they were using Arabic because their language had changed and to French. But then their local languages remain very, very strong because the house is already is still spoken by more than 7,000,000 people.

And they have the Wall Of Senegal, which is which is is also spoken very widely and other languages. But what I'm trying to establish here is that French actually stayed in in that region. I mean, all the countries to be specific for not more than sixty five years. That was a very short period, we can say, in in colonization, but it was long, basing on the nature of exploitation. But then French didn't actually leave the region.

As we see, after independence, they had what they call they had to the countries had to sign what they call colonial tax, whereby the former colonies to be declared independent, they had to sign this particular contract whereby they pay the French government almost 85% of their income. And they have to deposit it in in in in French Central Bank. They do it up until today. And any country which were trying to oppose that were faced severe severe sanction and problems as as as the history shows. And this country were only allowed to take 20% of what they have deposited, and it was taken in form of loan and debt, which they have to pay.

So we can imagine that the colonialists never actually left the Sahel region. But then, as I said, these people were Muslims. And as we know, as and as as we said, people actually, Muslim actually, they do not actually, accept the subjugation that very easily. They they they have this in fitra to kind of, you know, stand for the justice and stuff. But that doesn't didn't help much because actually, as we see, they are still paying their their colonial tax.

But we see nowadays, we have the influence from the Arabian Peninsula, and we have the Russians and the Chinese in the region. And this is due to, again, the the discovery of, other more woods, like gas, oil, and uranium, which the region actually provide more than half of the uranium that is used in the entire world, which actually the Russians and The US and and and those, countries with nuclear powers. They are they they they then the region is like the source of that particular raw material. So we can imagine how tense and how we can actually foresee that this region is not going to be left alone. And what they do, what I think is that they use this Islamic heritage, this sense of, you know, claiming justice and, you know, sense of there's no government stuff to to impose some Islamic Islamist, we can say, and and radicalism to try to to sow discord among the the the Sahel people.

So as to actually continue with what they are doing. And I think I'm coming to an end. I think if the countries, which they're actually doing, claiming the independence and trying to do business with Russia, China, and the the Arabian Peninsula in mutual benefit, I think that might help, but we know for sure that that that is not going to go without, the Western interference. Nobody is going to leave that particular rich region. Well, in this what I I have said, I I intended to leave the Moroccan influence in the region and the the Tunisian influence in in the region for a purpose.

It's actually what I was trying to see here is what is now raising is the cleaning of independence, getting rid of the West, and then and trying to stand by themselves and having collaboration with the the eastern part, say, the Brits. It is actually falling a new a new dawn to the region, which we have to look forward to what it will look like. I think I should end up there. And then if there was there will be questions, stuffs, we we can we can actually explore more for what I have said. So.

Thank you, sister.

Sister, that was very informative. I enjoyed going back in time a little bit with that. Sister, Selma has left a little infographic here in the chat. It's from Algebra where the components of a mobile phone, you can it's largely made up of all the minerals that you will find here in Africa. So, you know, the fact that we're speaking on something that the West Plains, they've come up with it.

They need the resources from Africa to actually create these things. Besides the cell phone, a lot of technology comes from having to use all those mineral resources that the Sahelists very rich in. So there will be some resources that that we will add to the link oh, sorry. When we when we do upload the video on YouTube, we'll add that there for more information. But this article looks very interesting, and I think I would also like to read that.

If anybody else would like to contribute, you're more than welcome to do that. Now's your chance. Is there something you'd like to say? Would like to say something.

What is the main Western colonialist proxy on the Continent Of Africa if if there's a particular nation or nations which are particularly joined at the hip of the West.

Like a clean state, which the The US you are using to, like, explore I mean, to have the power in Africa?

Yes. To destabilize, to control, to direct the events on the Continent Of Africa.

Well, I would say generally, from Africa, I can say, there are these countries which we call in Africa puppet countries. But recently, they have demonstrated a bit a bit viewpoint on on some policies. But I would say the IMF and the World Bank are the major instrument, which actually I think The US is using to control I mean, to to exert its power in Africa, plus their military bases. As we see in Niger, they they had this powerful military base, and we don't know what will happen after the Niger Niger decide to to kick it out. But I would say the the monetary of International Monetary Fund, the World Bank through education and stuff, that is the major way that they do.

Because actually, what what what I can say, unlike and maybe our our Middle Middle East or Asia or Europe or or Latin America in that case where, US used to have to have this particular, like, a client state where they they exactly are from there. They actually roll, I think, they rule over all Africa, I would say, only with some great, extent in some region and and less in some depending again to resource in their interest with regard to what they call security. So that's what I think is is is happening. But but then, I think I needed to say something about well, we can actually ask more questions. This region, regardless of all these resources, is the poorest region, let's say, very poor.

The question will be why. And I guess from there, perhaps we can discuss who why do we think the region is still very, very poor.

Thanks as well. Siselma did ask a question. I don't know if we can move on, or was there something else you wanted to first expand on that? Okay. So Susana asked in the comments, Ukraine is the American proxy in Europe.

What is the African equivalent? What do you think or who do you think is the African equivalent in in F sorry, in Africa?

Well, in Africa, I would say it's number of countries, but Nigeria is also used very much to to, like, in the West, to have power in the West, especially West Africa. In East Africa, we have we have Kenya, which is also used very much with The US to, like, you know, try to do some whatever they are they are to meet their whatever stuff they want to do in the region. And I I I would say there's no one country because Africa is a bit different. It's not, like, consolidated like Europe. We have African Union.

That's true, but we are not that very much consolidated. It is a it is like we have the northern, the main region, which is actually purely Arab, we'd say. And in the Niger Congo, where we have what we know what is happening now in Congo is very catastrophic. But Congo is unruled region. Again, there's no, like, stable government stuff for reasons.

Again, the the exploitation, which is very, very huge. But in the Southern Africa, they have their history. And, basically, you cannot say, for example, you are using Uganda to, like, do a your proxy thing in in in in in South Africa. But there are countries like Rwanda, which is said to be used as a proxy for Congo to, like, finding the Congo because they have their troops and staffs in Congo. And and and Rwanda is prospering.

It's it is getting, you know, it is getting better. But the Congo's, you know, getting worse and worse, and they're they're like I don't know. But, ideally, in these regions, you have countries in in a closed neighborhood where it will be used to, like, control other countries. Not necessarily one country with the entire Africa. Because, again, as I said, we are we are, like, different from different regions, different history, different communities, and you can we you cannot we don't have, like, a how should I say?

Like, European Union, as you said, we they have the the the they are one. They have their currents. They have their government. They have their their parliament. We we do have that, but it is not as powerful as the European Union, I would say.

I just want to say with regard to the Democratic Republic Of The Congo And Congo, this is literally the most minerally rich place on the earth. And that is why you see it in constant flux and destabilization because the people who actually live there and actually mine the minerals get very little economic benefit from their work. The minds are owned by others. And, so it's it's a very bad situation. And the reason why the Sahel region, is such a rich region in minerals, gold, is poor is because the money goes to France and other western nations.

The this wealth is literally what Europe is built off of. That is why there is such a high standard of living on the so called European continent and such a low standard of living in these Muslim nations. And so the agreements that they signed just equal death for them, and they have to get rid of those agreements, strengthen their military because The US trains and sends these insurgents in to attack the people, to destabilize the area so that the, rulers of the nations have to concentrate on trying to defend their civilian populaces from terrorists who are completely trained, funded, and armed by The United States and other western, nations. So the this is the the game that has been going on, and we know what it is, and it's just coming up with a a system to stop it.

Yeah. Thank you, sister Wahida. You've said some something very, very remarkable. Because in the Sahel, as we see, there are these groups, factions, I would say. Several of them.

And what what makes you think this is a common region is that this faction actually operate cross border. They go from Burkina Faso, Mali, Mauritania to to Nigeria to Chad. And it's like this they they kind of imposed the idea of, you know, having, you know, and stuff. And it looks like it says it's soft spot actually to easily navigate and, you know, like, to to to throw those people in in in in each other each other's throat, which makes the situation even catastrophic. Because then the the the West is now peacefully, like, exploiting whatever they want to.

But what we can see with the with what the the the the the the what is is going on in the in the region with regard to reclaiming their their resources, their their control of their resources. We we actually don't know what that will bring exactly because as we see, they do not do that by themselves because they actually still need technology. And and this context, they will need Russia and China and other countries to do that, which is they are enemies of the West. And that actually now, you become like a conflict zone whereby the superpowers, whatever, they are fighting on your land using your spouse, like your your your machineries, lock machineries to to, like, kill one another and, you know, like, making the the region go in flames. And I guess that's very dangerous with regard to the region.

I mean, like, combining these, like, you have the Russian, the China, the the West, and the people themselves with this Islamic heritage, as you are saying, like, people are there to stand for themselves. They are very much against and stuff. You can imagine what comes out of that. And having been paid now, for example, they have paid more than $500,000,000,000 to to the French, the the the region imagine. So the poverty level will continue to be striking.

That's very frightening to be to be honest.

Well, sister, I agree with everything that you said, and you've really made some salient points here. And I I truly believe that the Continent Of Africa is the main point that Muslims need to liberate in order for us as an ummah to prosper internationally. Islam is the number one religion on the Continent Of Africa and the number two religion on the Continent Of Asia. And our nations and our peoples have been subjected to all manner of violence in order for Western powers who became militarily excellent and thus, exceeded us and used that military power to economically rape our lands and our people. So it's very important for us to understand this.

And if you understand this, then you really start to see how important what brother Shahid is teaching is. It's it's just foundational to our ability as an to rise on this planet and be able to take care of our own people properly, it it its importance cannot be overstated. His positions are profoundly moral, and this is what we are lacking. You know, the people who are committing the atrocities in the various minerally wealthy African nations, and there is no African nation that isn't minerally wealthy, the people who are committing the atrocities are are not, you know, white people. They're not people from Europe or America.

What they're doing is they're sending in a few people to train them and to reinforce these separatist extreme ideologies and turning them loose to shoot other people from the same region. So there's a moral failing amongst our people. We don't have sense enough yet to stop murdering each other. And it's it's just so very, very important that we do what we can to try and spread, the understanding that brother Shahid has been blessed to give us because that that's just foundational to our ability to begin to address a mentality that is widespread in underdeveloped Muslim nations. And and unless that mentality is successfully addressed and put down, we're going to continue this cycle.

Well, that's very true, sister Wahida. And I guess there's the series that brother Feyde is going to have about decolonization. Psychological decolonization is really important, but how do we get that down to the people, especially in the region where the conflict is, you know, verging? Because ideally, that's what you said is actually the basic of the problem that we have this mostly majority, you know, population there, everything. But what what is composing their mentality?

What do they think of their future? That's something very, very profound, and I think the middle nation content teaching I mean, the the the the, how should I say, the ideology, the objectives and things. If they will get down to even a small part of a population, then it will start to, like, trick from from there. It will be helpful really because, as I said, these people, they have what we can you can say moral problem, but ideally, I think they are weaponizing their idea of, you know, having this, heaven, or something like that. And that's something very dangerous, I think.

Very dangerous. Lisa?

Thank you so much, ladies. That was very, really wonderful to listen to. I learned quite a lot there. If anybody else has anything to contribute, you're more than welcome to say or say now. We can move on to the next topic.

Let me know if you got something to say. Okay. We'll be moving along. So thank you so much as well for your time and for your wonderful presentation. I love speaking about Africa.

I like listening to about Africa. So thank you for that. Then we move on to the next speaker, which is brother Nel. And topic that he's chosen is very important for people around the world to be aware of and may Allah also rewarding for his efforts. So, brother Nel, can you take the mic?

Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Nisa. Can you just hear me? I I want to confirm my connection is stable before I start.

It's it's perfect.

It's perfect. Okay. Wonderful. I'll I'll just make that. Thank you.

So I'll be talking about European paganism and Christianity and compare and contrast the core beliefs of ancient pagan pagans in Europe and pagans in in Asia as well to the core doctrines of the Catholic and Orthodox Christians that live today. Right? So to start off, I will quote an ayah from Surah At Toba verse 13 where Allah says, the Jews say, is the son of Allah, while the Christians say, the is the son of Allah. Such are the baseless assertions only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them.

How can they be deluded from the truth? This is going to be the basis of my talk basically to show that the ancient pagans had very similar beliefs to the contemporary Christians. First off, I'd like to dedicate a portion of my talk to discussing pagan beliefs of Northern Europe, and this is based on the book, the lost beliefs of Northern Europe by Hilda Elis Davidson. Right. The first thing I'd like to mention is the anthropomorphism that is found in pagan gods.

Essentially, they were both human and divine, so they retained human traits often depicted as, like, lowly human traits, like negative human traits. And they behave like human beings, right, whilst retaining their divine essence. So the author says, and I quote, stories of the gods, however, must have been told from very early times. And as these developed, the deities were likely to take on more human shapes and characteristics while retaining majestic or demonic powers. Right?

So, essentially, the author also makes a claim that the anthropomorphic figures of gods were known in the northern bronze age, but the Romans were actually fashioned the deities in the form of men and women. And, obviously, they gradually became popular among the native population. We will come back to this a bit later when we talk about the Christian doctrine. The second thing I'd like to point out is their acts of worship. So in pagan communities, you essentially had priests, and in the ones that did not have priests, you had kings that acted as links to to gods.

Right? It was the duty of the king to communicate to gods whatever message they they wanted on behalf of the people. Feasts, huge feasts were made where they sacrificed animals and drank ale in honor of the gods. Right? So I'll quote a short passage from the book where the author says, the essential element on such occasions was the feast in which all took part, and this was a commensal meal shared with the gods.

The brewing of the ale or mead was of particular importance, and this was hallowed to the gods before the feasting began. The gods were honored in a body at the feast, although the brewing of the drink was especially associated with Odin, and the animal sacrificed might be the symbol of a particular god as the boar was linked with Freyr. The obligation to drink to the gods at such feasts may have influenced the Christian custom of drinking to Christ. We are saints at the medieval guild fests in Scandinavia. This is also a very important point, which I will also come back to a bit later.

The next thing is the veneration of the dead. So in pagan cultures, the dead were venerated, and the burial ground of kings was deemed sacred. They believed the spirits of powerful dead people were guardians and helpers of the living. So the author says the Celtic custom of treasuring the heads of dead enemies seems at least to have been partly based on the belief that this brought strength and good fortune to the victor, a victor of of of a battle, obviously. Graves of former kings were regarded as sacred places and also as centers of inspiration, which is a very a very strong link to the orthodox beliefs as well.

The next thing is holy places. So in pagan societies, holy places were associated with dead people, spirits from the other world, and the supernatural. The author says these were reminders of the divine world and usually places of offering, sometimes marked by signs of burning or animal bones. Occasionally, some ceremonial object has been abandoned there as in the marshes and peacocks of Denmark and Northern Germany. It is very important to note that there were many holy places, so there wasn't just, you know, one designated sacred place.

You could find them scattered all over the the country. Right? The next thing I'd like to to mention, and this is closely connected to Christian beliefs, is the Arian myths of sun gods. This is based on the book Arian sun myths Sarah Elizabeth Tidcombe. So, basically, the Arians believed that the sun was the sun of the sky or the heaven father and that the immaculate virgin, the earth, was the mother of the sun.

As the sun begins its apparent annual journey on the December 25, this day was said to be his birthday and was observed with the great rejoicings. As he approaches midsummer, he appears in all his splendor. He has reached the summit the summit of his career. Henceforth, his power diminishes, and he meets with an early and a violent death from which there is no escape. The bright son of summer is slain, crucified in the heavens, and pierced by the spear, thorn or arrow, of winter.

At his death, there is darkness over all the land. He descends into hell or Hades. In ancient times, hell or hates was a place neither of reward nor punishment. With what was simply the the home of the dead, good and bad alike, the wood primarily signify nothing more than the hollow grave, old pit, or cavern. On the December 22, the sun enters the sign Capricornus or the goat and appears to remain in the same place for three days and three nights and then begins to ascend.

This was said to be the resurrection of the sun from hates or the grave. At Easter, the sun has been below the equator and suddenly rises above it. It rises triumphant over the powers of darkness and cold. The doctrines of original sin and the following condition of man were not unknown to the primitive Arian who, in order to propitiate his gods, atoned for sins or avert calamities offered sacrifices to them. In the course of time, it began to be imagined that the gods demanded something more sacred as offerings or atonements for sin.

This led to the sacrifice of human beings, at first of slaves and those taken in the war, and finally of their own children, even their most beloved and firstborn. It came to be an idea that every sin must have its prescribed amount of punishment and that the gods would accept the life of one person in atonement for the sins of others. From this arose belief in the redemption from sin by the sufferings of a divine incarnation by death on the cross or otherwise. Now this all sounds very, very familiar to the official Christian doctrine. And, essentially, what it is is like a blood payment for the sins of humanity, right, where the pagan gods did not simply accept They did not accept repentance.

They had to be paid for for the sins by the humans. Right? And, obviously, the concept of human sacrifice is found in Northern European and European paganism in in general. So this is not something exclusive to to the Aryans. Now the second point I'd like to I'd like to emphasize and well, actually, the second part is about the core Christian beliefs, and this part is based on two documents.

The first one is the essential Orthodox Christian beliefs produced by Orthodox Church in America and the official catechism of the Catholic church. So, basically, the core belief of Christianity is the Jesus Christ who is fully god and fully human, fully man. So Jesus Christ, the son of god, is fully god, meaning has a divine will and fully human, meaning has a human will sent by his father as the redeemer through the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ to humanity is forgiven for their sins. So we see here that the idea of a god or a deity possessing two wills is not something unique to Christianity. It was found in pagan cultures across Europe.

The book says the church would, in the coming centuries, confess both his full humanity and his full divinity combined in one person, divinity and humanity existing together unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably. The son shares the essence or the with the father, eternally begotten by him and with the holy spirit forms the holy trinity. So the author goes on to say, though father, son, and holy spirit are all coequal and coeternal, the father is the aishya, the cause of the son and the spirit, not in terms of time, but hypothetically in terms of their personhood. The fathers referred to this as the monarchy of the father. And this very much resembles the pagan belief of human deity that comes down to earth and sacrifices his life to appease the the gods.

But, obviously, in this case, the the sacrifice is the god himself as well, which is slightly confusing. Now the second thing is is obviously the atonement for the sins of humanity. According to Christian belief, Jesus Christ is is the sacrificial lamb of god. So lamb is a very interesting term that they use because lamb is obviously an animal and this resembles the pagan belief that the animal represents a god or is the is the symbol of a god a god. Right?

As as we saw in Scandinavian, a culture's boar was the symbol of Freyr. And Jesus Christ sacrificed his human form, so his, like, second second form, second will, whatever you want to call it, to redeem humanity and to save those who accept him. After dying, he rose from the dead on the third day and descended to heaven. And this is very much similar to the Arian myths of the sun god who remained dead in the in the hates, in the hell, right, and then rose on the third day and basically illuminated the the world. And the similarity is striking, honestly speaking.

The next point is veneration of the dead. Now this is very close to home, actually. I'm personally from the Balkans, and I live amongst Orthodox Christians. In their theology, powerful and pious dead people who dedicated their lives to the church become saints who are invoking prayers and asked to intercede on behalf of the living. Their graves are of significant importance and are considered sacred for Christians.

The most high and most important saint, obviously, is virgin Mary, in both Catholic and Orthodox Christianity. Saints are immortalized through church iconography. And, again, this bears resemblance to the pagan beliefs of the this idea that the dead can actually help the living through their intercession because they are powerful. They're powerful spirits, and they have a link to to to god, right, or in in pagan beliefs to to gods. And the last thing I I'd like to point out, the last similarity is the Eucharist.

And as I think Selma also shared a comment in the in in the room. Yeah. This is actually very, very similar to the pagan belief that they they somehow have to eat the flesh of of the symbol of god. And, obviously, the Eucharist, according to the author, is our participation in the saving self offering of Christ. When we eat his body and drink his blood, we receive his divine life and abide in his salvation, receiving forgiveness, healing, transformation, and the power of the holy spirit.

So all of these, I think, can actually show us that there are striking similarities between ancient pagan beliefs and orthodox Christian beliefs. All these beliefs that I quoted were found in the catechism, the Catholic church, and, you know, core beliefs of the orthodox as well. And I'd like to end with a very interesting point that was made by doctor Ali Atayid from Zaytuna College in California. He's a biblical scholar. He's a Sunni Muslim.

And he basically asserts that when Saul of Tarsus or Paul as as he's widely known, when he wanted to spread the message, his idea was because these pagan beliefs were very popular at that time, like, across the regions. His idea was to present Jesus Christ not as, you know, coeternal, coequal with god, but actually as the son of god, as a lesser deity, very much like ancient pagan deities. So this idea that, you know, Jesus Christ has always been regarded as coeternal and coequal with god according to to the doctor is dubious at best. Right? And, actually, the the author of the of the book Orthodox Christian Beliefs himself says that according to their belief, the the people of Israel during the the times of Moses, right, for example, were not ready for accepting the holy trinity.

So Jesus did not reveal himself at that time because they had to establish the found the strong foundations of monotheism. And only when they have done that, then, obviously, according to then, Jesus Christ revealed himself to be part of the holy trinity, and he reveal which, in in my humble opinion, does not really hold up. And I don't really want to offend anybody, but does not make any sense to any monotheist, be it, you know, Jew or or Muslim. So, basically, that's it really. I don't really want to take too much of your time.

If you have any questions or we we can have a, you know, short discussion about this, go ahead, please. Thank you.

I'll that was incredibly fascinating to listen to what you have to say. Is there anybody that would like to can I call on anybody to ask a question? Rashay, do Okay.

Yes. I have a question regarding the Tassawwuf practices because in some certain type of niches of Tassawwuf and Sufi Islam, they actually have the not similar because or let's say, they have the similar approach to saints because they say that saints are the friends of God and that they have, like, a certain type of ability to even actually, after death, interfere with the human with the with the living and that they have, like, certain spiritual powers within the. Yes. And I wanted to know if that is also, like, an adoption of pagan practices in the Muslim type of environment. Yes.

K. If

Lisa, can I if

I may, brother? Sorry. Val, if if you'd like to comment, go go ahead. Yeah. Sorry.

Not not commenting. Actually, I think he's referring to something like tawassul, like, making a prayer through, like, invoking, let's say, let's say

In decision.

In decision, like, using Allah's, like, Allah's, like, you know, you have to use Allah's name to to to to call him, to invoke him. And I think he's talking about when you have these, like, sharifs and bullies and and people who hold, like, some significance in terms of, you know, we can say piety, something like that. But that's I think is, and it is it is a different I I I don't think it is it is it is fair to actually link it exactly to Paganism or that level, you know you know, how should I say, shirk because that's very far, I guess. I mean, it will it will be like stretching it to a very far end, which is not there actually when it comes to Islam, I suppose. I'm not calling that, but I guess our brother Oozie, I don't know how to say his name, we can go through and maybe go through the the reading of how the Sufis in practicing the Tazkir, as you say, like the the the South.

But that is about purifying one's souls and trying to get, you know you know, being pure and stuff personally. But this intersection of saying, I think it is the last soul. It is not the South.

Well, I mean, I I don't pretend to be a Muslim scholar at all, but the what brother talked about is not really found in the Quran and authentic hadith as as far as I know. We are, as as Muslims, directed to God, and we don't really have any intercessors in that view. Now, obviously, if if a certain practice entered the, you know, the people of of Islam, you know, some people of Islam, and I'm I'm familiar with that. I mean, it it does happen in the Balkans as well. Bear in mind, this was once a pagan pagan land.

Right? But I don't really I would not attribute that to to the core, like, Orthodox Sunni Islam. And, you know, that might be an an influence of a particular culture or a particular belief on the people of particular regions. So that's what I'm going to say about that, really. Also, I I read Shahid's question, what moral rules and conduct did paganism teach?

Well, to my knowledge, paganism is a is a broad term. If we talk about, like, Northern European paganism, they primarily taught that you have to obey the king. The king is the is the authority, the link to god, and you have to sacrifice yourself for the king. In terms of moral rules and conduct, I'm not overly familiar with that. I would say that there is a great deal of nihilism in those pagan cultures, a great deal of hopelessness and desperation.

And I think one of their main one of their main beliefs was achieving and I'm talking about, like, northern northern pagans, was achieving immortality or fame through death in combat, in battle. But other than that, I can't really say. I mean, I'm I haven't studied that now to be able to provide a comprehensive answer, I'm afraid.

Thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to contribute? You're more than welcome to take the mic and have you say.

I I would, for example, ask to link, that Burghese heritage in Christianity in terms of how then the Europeans, you know, organize their lives and how that affect when it come affect them when it comes to interaction with other people who are not them. Because I think it has some impact, a very big impact to the way they see themselves, you know, different or something? Anything related to that?

Well, actually, I think that it it may sound strange. I think that ancient pagans were much more tolerant of others than than Christians because we know for a fact they traded with with the Muslims during the times, you know, when Muslims were demonized by by the Catholics in Europe. But I I I mean, to answer your question, there is this belief that you have to you have to see to believe. You have to have something tangible to believe. You cannot just believe.